"These guys are good, too," Tillman said. "I think the ultimate goal is to get somebody out. My goal is in three pitches or less, but a lot of times they don't want to get out in three pitches or less. So you've got to make better pitches, get ahead, stay ahead. I think where a lot of it comes to is when you're trying to strike guys out and throwing not like they say, letting the defense work. You're trying to pitch to contact, but a lot of times when you're trying to get out of it, a lot of times you try to throw strikeout pitches a lot of the time. With some hitters, it works. With the aggressive hitters, you can do that, but with the other ones it can turn into seven-, eight-, nine-pitch at-bats.